Pix-Elated

58 Comments

• Glory replied 11 years ago
  I agree - I too would be asked if I was going somewhere. Last year I recall wearing a purple sweater with my jeans at the kids hockey game and I was asked why I was all dressed up....
  There are degrees of casual and the requirement is dictated by lifestyle and location. Where I am in lifestyle, daily wear is definately jeans and a top. More would be very dressed up.
  If I have a special place to go I could notch it up a bit. I try to have a capsule for those things but in all honestly I use them so infrequently they are often dated by the time I want them again.
   
  
  
• Transcona Shannon replied 11 years ago
  I think "dressy" or "casual" is completely relative and is based on the situation and the setting. 
  
  I used to work in a much more corporate office environment and how I dress now on days with trousers and semi tucked sweaters would be considered casual. However the office I'm in now makes this same outfit completely acceptable.  Whereas when I wear a dress and blazer at work, I'm considered over dressed.
  
  Any time I have changed jobs, I always pay attention to how others in the office dress and for the most part, base my dressing to match. However, as I'm gaining more confidence in my style and what I like to wear, I am more likely to throw caution to the wind and dress how I want (as long as it's appropriate) and don't worry as much about "fitting in".
• rachylou replied 11 years ago
  Oh wait. Let me explain. The world is divided into fancy people and normal people. I know all about this because my mum and bf are normal people (they tell me this is so) and I am fancy people (they tell me this is so).
  
  Normal people wear the same thing all the time except for the occasions when they are born, marry, die... oh and go to church (which is the same difference). This would be mom jeans (the men too), a knit shirt (round scoopneck for women, collars for men), fleece jacket (no no, not the tacky kind you've just thought of), running shoes. They can wear this outfit everywhere they go because they don't go places where you have to wear something else. Those places are a *bit too fancy* (practically morally suspect).
  
  If you are not dressed like this, normal people will say, "a bit dressed up, eh?" This does not mean you are dressed up. This means you are not wearing the outfit above.
  
  I'd like to comment, now, that *normal people* do seem to sneak off and do things like get season tickets to the symphony and dress appropriately, but I'm sure no one would know what I'm talking about...
  
  
  
• texstyle replied 11 years ago
  To me casual is pretty much anything I wear just to do regular life activities and can throw in the washer with abandon. Casual is to go shopping, visit a friend, eat at a cafe, etc. Dressy is more for weddings, celebrations, a nice dinner out, maybe going to hear the symphony or attending a business conference.
  
  To me casual includes jeans, khakis, shorts, most of my button downs (except maybe silk or similar items), most of my knit tops, non-heeled shoes, fashion jewelry for the most part, light makeup, etc. And dressy would be my nicer slacks or a skirt with a silk top or other top I wouldn't want to get stained and probably hand wash, heels, better jewelry, more makeup, etc.
  
  Sometimes the items cross over of course.
  
  I try not to dress too much for others unless it is a wedding or similar event where maybe the church or home has some of it's own expectations and I want to be considerate of them. And I guess I wouldn't purposely dress up too much to go to a very casual family event where I might help in the kitchen, play with the kids or dogs and stuff like that. But I wouldn't restrict myself from dressing the way I am comfortable, even if THEY think it's dressier than I should.
  
  If someone says sarcastically "Well don't YOU look snazzy today?" I would simply say "Thank you! I really tried to look nice." Usually ends that conversation. If they press with "Where did you think you were going?" I might even say "I wasn't sure but I thought you might invite me someplace special so I wanted to be ready just in case!" 
• Nicole D replied 11 years ago
  Rachylou you are a hoot!  I would call those normal people - "Canadians".  I find there are cultural influences too.  In some cultures it would jut be unheard of to leave the house in sweatpants, whereas in others dressing up means wearing your "good" sweatpants.
  
  
  
• krishnidoux replied 11 years ago
  LOL Rachylou!
  
  I admit being very confused about this. I think I know, then I'm proved wrong. People have often told me "You're going somewhere?" just because I felt like wearing my pumps on a given day. If I wear the above described by Rachylou outfit, I feel very frumpy (especially in a round scoopneck!).It has always been like this for me. I have ignored comments all my life. But am still confused. 
  
• Beth Ann replied 11 years ago
  Suz this is in the forefront of my mind these days, too.  I'm often asked, "Why are you so dressed up?," and am rarely complimented.  Now, I'm not fishing for compliments when I choose what I wear, but these responses make me fear that I'm missing the environmental boat.
  
  Since I work very little in the Summer, I'm going to try to put together some "really casual, but not pajamas" looks and see if I feel like myself dressed that way.  I don't want to be a "poseur," and I would feel like one in plain jeans, a football jersey and Nikes, but I do want to be approachable.
  
  Strangely, this kind of thing also makes me want to move.  It's as if I'm out of place, literally.  There are lovely people in my suburban community, and I have no desire to change or pass judgment on their lifestyle, but let's just say I'm the only one blasting the neighborhood with operatic arias and watching Doctor Who instead of the Bears game.  I sometimes wonder if my "team dressy" persona reveals something about my deeper self that I need to honor.  Maybe not with something so drastic as a major move (although that could be coming), but smaller lifestyle choices.
  
  
  
• catgirl replied 11 years ago
  I commented on that thread too, Suz!  It is truly confusing.  I could not be more out of place where I live - I get asked all the time if I just moved here.  From New York.  Haha.  I really don't care as long as I'm happy and presentable and not freezing my butt off.   Casual is so standard here it's not even a concept.  What is presentable casual here is camping gear elsewhere.  People go to the opera in Carharrts.  It's both refreshing and sad depending on how you look at it.  
• replied 11 years ago
  This is a really good discussion! (I'm ROTFL at Rachylou!) It seems that designers like to play with this and turn out garments that are neither fish nor fowI. A fabric can be casual (rough, rugged, slubbed, nubby, sturdy), but something in a formal silhouette but made of one of these casual fabrics can make it feel casual.
  
  OTH, design details can be casual (rustic buttons, utility zippers, cargo pockets, grommets, gussets). An item could be made with a dressy fabric, but if it had one/some of these design details, it might feel casual. 
  
  I tend to think flat shoes are more casual than any heel, but what if the flat is refined leather and the heel is a chunky jute wedge? I tend to think pants or shorts are more casual than a skirt or dress, but what if the pants are silk palazzo pants and the dress is sun-faded denim? There are so many factors and visual clues that make us deem something casual or not. For me it seems to be a gradient, or a sliding scale. I look forward to reading all of the responses!
• Liz A. replied 11 years ago
  I think what an individual considers casual has a lot to do with what s/he feels most comfortable in.  For instance, what do you wear when you are just puttering around the house?  I personally wear sweats or yoga pants and a tank top or t-shirt.  That is what I feel most comfortable in.  There was a long period of time when I would wear these outfits everywhere, including to parties (in high school), and to class (in college), and to the grocery store (up until like a week ago, ok maybe I still do this).  Putting on jeans to me feels like making a special effort, although I do still consider this casual.  Putting on my work clothes means putting on something I would never choose to wear if I had my way about it.
  
  I say all this to say that I guess I am one of the "normal" people according to Rachylou's mom.  But YOUR NORMAL, being what you consider casual, is most probably what you feel most comfortable in.  Another way to say it is that what you personally consider to be casual is what you would choose to wear on a daily basis.  Now the real question is (and maybe what Suz is really asking) is my casual too casual?  Or is her casual too dressy?  Angie, where are you?
• Caro in Oz replied 11 years ago
  What Beth Ann said really resonated with me. My new city is not the same "fit" for me as my old one. I don't have the answer. I guess I have adjusted my clothing to suit to some degree but I know I can't  go too far or I feel awful. 
• Aida replied 11 years ago
  What Shannon said: ' "dressy" or "casual" is completely relative and is based on the situation and the setting. ' Geography also seems to play a part, so I'd add that as well. The wearer's comfort level is also involved in whether they feel pressure to further dress down, and some social situations will require sensitivity to how others perceive "casual" to be.
  
  (FWIW, I have no problem wearing pumps to hockey games and have done so :) )
• hedgiehog replied 11 years ago
  Suz, this is a great post. I suppose everyone's casual is different depending on where they live and what they feel comfortable in. I completely get where rachylou is coming from. All my life, people have told me I don't know how to dress down. Even in casual settings, I'll be the one who's overdressed. And it's doubly difficult because I live in a super casual environment. I went to the theatre a few weeks ago and was amazed at the number of people wearing jeans and flip flops. I felt like I made an effort so they should have as well. My hubby says it's just the nature of where we live. 
  I think my idea of casual is "smart casual" and I don't mind being a bit overdressed. I usually receive compliments so I think I'll just keep on the way I am. If I feel comfortable then I'm happy. :-)
• cciele replied 11 years ago
  Haha, rachylou you crack me up yet again. But rings true to me:
  If you are not dressed like this, normal people will say, "a bit dressed up, eh?" This does not mean you are dressed up. This means you are not wearing the outfit above.
  
  Or basically, "You are not wearing what I think is casual."
  
  It's interesting that many people here struggle with their casual capsules. I've wondered why that is--perhaps because of this wide range of definition for casual?
• Ariadne replied 11 years ago
  Oh, great topic.  This is something I think about a lot.  I spend the vast majority of my time in an environment that is both ultra-casual AND low to middle-low income.  My outfit are primarily casual, but they're a step up (or several steps up) from what I see around me.  I sometimes worry that my somewhat dressier and more pulled-together casual looks could come across as a slap in the face. 
• Suz replied 11 years ago
  Cathy, that's a really good point, and I guess that's why I brought Day Vies' comment to its own thread. I think we struggle with our casual capsules because there's so much variation in what casual means in different environments, and also because when we're casual is also when we (may) want to appear "approachable," or to feel "extra comfortable" or even "effortless." And even if an outfit feels effortless to me, if I keep getting comments to the effect that I made an effort (or too much of an effort) it can become difficult to maintain that sense of savoir faire.
  
  Most of us know that if we work in a conservative business environment, we have to conform to certain standards, at least in a broad way. And even if we work in a creative field, we want to (somehow) look the part. But the casual capsule can be so many things. 
  
  Rachylou, you had me laughing out loud for real with your hilarious and insightful comments. Nicole -- you, too. Canadians, indeed. Or Alaskans. 
  
  Beth Ann, I sometimes feel like you do. I don't really feel as if I "belong," sartorially, in my city. Fortunately, because I now work at home, it doesn't much matter.
  
  Ironically, now that I'm working at home, wearing what I consider my most casual capsule, I now dress closer to the standard everyday dress in this city -- even of people who work outside the home! I feel as if I'm as dressed down as a person can be and still be decently covered. Yet if I go out to the supermarket or even out to lunch, I'll often be the most dressed up person in the room. What is "dressy"? Oh...maybe a knit jacket instead of a cardigan. Maybe a slight heel on my bootie instead of gear shoes. 
  
  
  I think Day Vies also implied another factor. Some of us, no matter what we wear -- even the fleece or whatever -- we will be perceived as dressed up. Hunh? In the same outfit but more dressed up than the person beside us? But it happens. 
  
  
  
• Suz replied 11 years ago
  Ariadne, yes - I think that is a common worry. I have felt it. 
  
  Deborah (Australian Deb) always dresses like herself (her very polished self) regardless. And told me that she has never received negative feedback. I suspect she is so inherently kind and ladylike that no one would take her lovely clothes as insulting to themselves. But I don't know if that is the case for everyone. 
  
  As an undergrad, I could never, ever find jeans that fit me right. So I defaulted to what (even then) struck me as very prim styles, mostly skirts. In a way, it made sense; I needed to look presentable for my retail jobs. The skirts were also (ironically) cheaper than the jeans. But I took a lot of flack, not just for being dressed up, but for seeming hoity-toity. People thought I was rich because of the way I dressed, when in fact, I was the one working to put myself through school. 
• Gaylene replied 11 years ago
  I think Rachylou nailed it with this statement: "...people will say, "a bit dressed up, eh?" This does not mean you are dressed up. This means you are not wearing the outfit above."
  
  Every environment has its "outfit" (or dress code, if you want to use fancier language). If you don't dress in the "outfit", you stand out from the group. If you stand out from the group, members of the group try to guess your intentions. Are you saying you don't want to be part of the group? Are you trying to differentiate yourself from other people in the group (insert the "snobby" comment here)? Are you just an oddball?
  
  The comment "a bit dressed up,eh?" is a subtle(?) attempt to try to bring you back into the group. If the group members are generally congenial, they often just develop an "Oh, that's just Martha--she always dresses like that" approach to your preferred style of dress. But other groups might flat out reject you, or more likely, roll their eyes at your name when you are not around. Which, if you aren't really wanting to be part of that group, probably isn't going to bother you much.
  
  Personally, I think "casual" dress is the hardest one for many of us because it involves what we wear when we are with family and friends. Do I wear my cashmere hoody when I'm visiting my husband's family, or do I layer my fleece vest over my flannel shirt? In the rural community where his family have their farm, I know the answer if I want to be part of the group.
  
• cciele replied 11 years ago
  Suz, you made an interesting observation:
  "Some of us, no matter what we wear -- even the fleece or whatever -- we will be perceived as dressed up. "
  
  Perhaps we can do a challenge, and all wear the same thing (e.g., jeans, t-shirt) and see if we can pinpoint what it is about an outfit, or the person wearing it, that makes that outfit more or less casual? Would that even work? :)
• Isabel replied 11 years ago
  All.the.time.  I have to say that I think what you do for a living plays a role. I am a stay at home mom, so when I show up for an afterschool basketball game, people expect you to roll in in jeans and sneakers and a polar fleece. Or a yoga outfit.  Other women who work get more of a pass if they dress up according to their "position"  ( it is a small town ).  
  
  Once, when my one of my friends visited me and we went out around town, someone I knew commented that my friend wasn't dressed very well for a VP position in a Fortune 500 company ( which she is ) . The funny thing was that my friend looked FAB in a navy eyelet dress that fit her to a T and she was wearing beautiful sandals. She is always well groomed, though her nails are never colored.  I am not sure what the person expected, an Armani suit to walk around a very small, rural , farm town ?  Humans are really interesting creatures, aren't we.  
  
  One more example..once when I was at our little grocery store, the woman at the cash register was talking to the man in front of me about another woman in town. The man said, " Have you seen the size of that engagement ring ? "  Cashier " Yes, that has to be at least 5 cts. "   Man, " Why in God's name would a stay at home mom wear something like that ?  The most fancy thing she does is grocery shop ? "    Hmmmmm......
  
  Regarding the "who do you think you are", Stacy London once answered that with a quote from Elizabeth Taylor, " I am me. "
• catgirl replied 11 years ago
  That'a a great idea, Cathy.  Sort of like no matter what I wear, I seem to have a RATE aura.  I don't think it's even possible for you to look ratty, Suz!
• replied 11 years ago
  Joining Una on the RATErs. Even when I am dressed up, I still look RATE even when attempting polish! I think Angie and Suz and other fabbers like Joy, Claire, Deborah are ones with innate polish. 
• Suz replied 11 years ago
  That challenge would be super fun, Cathy!! 
  
  Una, I've been thinking...at first (thinking of Day Vies) I thought maybe it was the polished/ RATE distinction, i.e. the polished among us look inherently less casual, no matter what. 
  
  But I'm not sure that's true. You can be very RATE but not terribly casual sometimes. 
  
  
  
• catgirl replied 11 years ago
  Yes, I'm not saying they are equal (RATE/casual) but that some of us inherently project a certain vibe, be it RATE or polished or casual or dressy.  Perhaps we should do a "dress your opposite" challenge again.  Last time I did it I didn't own polished shoes!  
• rachylou replied 11 years ago
  cciele, I think that would be really interesting if we all put on jeans and a tee and see how it came out, on which side of the spectrum - casual or fancy.
  
• Gaylene replied 11 years ago
  This is such an interesting thread, Suz.
  
  Do you think that part of the problem comes from the way clothing and individuality is so closely associated these days? For centuries, what one wore was dictated by one's class, occupation, or circumstances. In the later part of the 20th century, the idea clothing as a type of "uniform" that signaled one's group, position, or occupation was completely overthrown by the idea of clothing as a form of personal expression and creativity. Instead of wanting to look like I belong, I now want to look like me.
  
  The conflict comes when we hit the wall of societal expectations and group dress codes. Do I hang on to my individuality even if it means upsetting or irritating others, or do I adjust my outfit to fit the prevailing ideas about how a person ought to be dressed? And, maybe, "casual dress" is where this conflict becomes most noticeable for many of us...
  
• Lyn D. replied 11 years ago
  Very interesting, Suz, and I think we are on the right track.
  Deborah wearing her camo. jeans springs to mind. Still looks elegant and polished and true to style.
  Perhaps it is that 'third element'- jacket/shoes or even hair/accessories that  can set apart a casual ensemble.
  Strange too, that although I am an introvert, I don't mind being the most 'dressed-up' person in a room.
• Day Vies replied 11 years ago
  Suz you are a genius for starting this thread. I haven't yet been back to the original one to read those comments. 
  
  Rachylou -- YOU ARE A NUT --- omg, I was laughing out loud and choking on my food. You are so right and btw, in my neck of the woods that outfit is standard casual fair. If you ain't wearing it you're not part of the group. 
  
  I really appreciate the comments here because it seems to underscore the idea that there is something inherently bad about wanting to look attractive (highlight your own unique beauty) rather than blend in and look like everyone else. 
  
  Could "casual" under some circumstances mean "try to look like everyone else" or "don't you dare show up looking pretty". I felt like this was the case when I would hang out with some friends from college (we don't "hang" anymore though we're still friendly). I got the impression that they thought since I got married that being attractive would be a thing of the past for me.
  
  Even when I'm casually dressed I still want to look pulled together-- it has nothing to do with being attractive to others. It's more about pleasing myself, being creative and enjoying my clothes.  Some groups/communities act like this is some sort of crime. 
• catgirl replied 11 years ago
  Hmm, so far no one has said that they are the most casual person where they live.  Does anyone live where casual is dressier?  And what does that say about the culture in general?
• Runcarla replied 11 years ago
  Good fit and attention to detail can elevate casual to the point where one could be asked 'going somewhere?'
  
  
  
• Day Vies replied 11 years ago
  Alaskagirl -- I think our culture is going under. It's sad that people are being made to feel ashamed because they make the effort. 
  Runcarla I completely agree! If your clothes fit well some how you're going somewhere. 
• Krista replied 11 years ago
  For me, personally, casual is in-between the loungewear of jogging pants, sweatshirts and yoga pants I wear at home to relax in - which I feel sloppy, yet comfortable in - and the smart casual look as defined by Angie here:
  http://youlookfab.com/2006/09/.....or-ladies/.  Angie's post is what I was using to define my idea of a casual capsule vs. a smart casual capsule.
  
  There is a place in my life for something in-between and that's why I referred to it as casual.  It is defined by the items I outlined in the original post - casual pants, flats, casual tops like graphic t's and casual toppers - but it is not "gear."  To me, gear is what you wear when you want to go rock-climbing or hiking.  I also find myself in an urban, youthful environment outside of work and home.  Upon further reflection since I posted the thread, I think it had a lot to do with the fact that I was trying to achieve a casual look with just two pairs of jeans and 2 or 3 casual tops.  Virtually impossible and constant frustration, given my lifestyle.
  
  I also find it very difficult to be casual because of the shape of my figure.  I'm very curvy and a lot of casual styles don't look good on me which is why I have defaulted to "smart casual" for so long.  But flared jeans, a nice top and heeled boots get old and I needed something in-between.  I'm determined to find casual looks that work for me and my figure.
  
  Finally, I wanted to clarify some mis-interpretation that played out in the comments on my thread.  Several people interpreted my pictures of the outfits as "dressier" than their interpretation of what casual dressing is - and I couldn't agree more.  However, I came home with over 12 items of clothing and I wanted to minimize the number of pictures in one thread.  So I paired items together to show them, but not necessarily in the way that I would wear them casually.  I did mention that that they were somewhat unstyled, but it was a long post with a lot of information, so perhaps people had missed that.
  
  I wasn't really anticipating so much discussion on this topic?! I just wanted some pants and some tops - honestly! ;) 
• K. Period. replied 11 years ago
  @Rachylou, I was ROFL. I kept thinking "and the churchin' of wimen."  
  
  I'm fancy people. I always have been. My family, not so much. I'm grateful, though, because it reminds me often of the power of dressing well. It also keeps me attuned to the message that clothing sends.  
  
  I mentioned in Krista's original post that I have a small capsule of very casual items. I wear them when I know that people will be intimidated by me. It is a weird thing, to write that. I'm not an intimidating person, but sometimes people who don't know me only see me as what I do professionally (lawyer) and it makes them feel uncomfortable. If I added to that my typical professional dress or even smart casual outfits, they wouldn't ever feel comfortable. I'm just a girl who grew up on a small farm in the not so swanky outlying area of a small city. My mom worked pretty typical office support jobs. My dad was a sheet metal worker. Most of the time, I can relate to them and their lives a lot better than they would ever guess, but if the barrier of their expectations makes them unable to see that, then we both miss out because they won't open up to me and I won't have the chance to get to know them.
  
  So, I have my very casual capsule.  I still look put together, but I wear things that are approachable: a lightweight Columbia jacket, or a suede coat, or a jean jacket. Jeans or plain shorts. Plain flats or simple boots. A basic tee or a button down in a simple pattern with the sleeves rolled. Nothing so fashion forward that you wouldn't see it at the Gap. Having that capsule lets me shed the skin of their expectations and get to know them.  
  
  I guess that at the end of the day, for me, casual is a range of looks.  You might have your MOTG looks. You have your office looks and interview looks and important meeting looks. You need casual looks too that run the gamut from smart casual to super casual, but feel like you.  Casual is hard to pin down because it has such a range. I think that is part of the brilliance of the idea of identifying what you do in your life, what kind of events you really attend outside your fantasy life, and planning outfits for them.   
  
  
  
• Suz replied 11 years ago
  Krista, I hope my starting the thread has not bothered you. And I understood that you hadn't styled many of the items as you would wear them in your casual capsule. I think you did brilliantly in putting this together for yourself, and I agree -- by my personal standards, what you came up with (and what you describe here) would count as casual. 
  
  It's just that...well...to be completely honest...I can wear distressed jeans, a t shirt, flat sandals -- and be considered "dressed up." So what Day Vies said really resonated with me. And I have also felt at times that I was being accused of trying too hard to look nice. As if, even wearing a slightly figure flattering outfit (i.e. one that fit, to Runcarla's point)  was a bit suspect. 
  
  In the end, I am fortunate. I have the freedom not to care too much about how the group (whatever the group is) perceives me. And in person I am pretty friendly so people generally get over their initial distrust of me anyway. But you know...I still think Rachylou is right! 
• Suz replied 11 years ago
  Brilliant, K Can. That's it -- there is such a range, and so the wisdom of thinking about what one actually does -- and how to dress for that -- is supreme. That's why Krista made a really good move when she identified that wardrobe gap and addressed it at...gasp...the GAP!!! 
• Krista replied 11 years ago
  No worries, Suz! I think it has struck a chord with people and I totally understand that.  I agree that people have different ideas on casual and what some feel is casual is not what others would say is casual.  I'd be interested to hear what Angie would say about this? 
  
• replied 11 years ago
  I completely agree that your definition of casual is defined by the people around you.  I am a grad student in a medium sized city and I find that I am sometimes both the most causally dressed and the dressiest person in my environment on the same day - depending on the places I go. 
  
  My challange is to dress in a way that's casual enough for my workspace, feels like my style, and dressy enough to go downtown after work.  Over time I've started to figure out which stylish elements blend in the best in my casual workplace and how to tweak an outfit with accessories and shoes to try and make it work through the whole day.  But I still occasionally find myself both over and underdressed.  I'd love to hear others' tips!
  
• DonnaF replied 11 years ago
  I was thinking that in a good part of America (or maybe a bad part?), casual means wearing gear, either athletic gear or camping gear.  So to dress down some of my outfits, I thought back to one of Angie's blogs mentioning utility jackets and anoraks.  So-o-o, I tried a Michael Kors anorak in a pretty blue and cute style.  But yuck!!!!  I instantly understood Rae's complaints about polyester sliminess.  So last week I bought an Eddie Bauer anorak which resists rain better and doesn't get clammy.  Do my outfits instantly change, having gone from a fashion anorak to a gear one?
  
  Note:  I'm keeping the EB regardless because I want something I can wear hiking, and the MK looks like it would rip if a tree branch snagged it.  I also figured I should make some concession to environmental norms.
  
• Eliza replied 11 years ago
  I am really enjoying reading all these posts on the meaning of casual. I think that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.  If one takes several wardrobe pieces that individually read "casual" in most people's minds, ensure that they are well-fitting, flattering and play nicely together, the end result has a certain polish that not all people can or choose to achieve, even though the look remains casual. For example, the white, red, khaki capsule can look super-smart, but of course it will not work at most funerals, state dinners, or corporate meetings.
  
  I think some reactions to well-crafted casual outfits that people are reporting are about the total effect of the choices- people notice you, perhaps as putting a bit of thought into what you wear or as having an innate sense of style. This is where it gets interesting to me.  I have worked in academia, where fashion goes to die.  If I walked into a meeting at my college looking extra put together (same general theme, just a high happiness factor for me), it was easy to be perceived as frivolous for caring.  I found that fascinating, and at times de-moralizing.  Can't we be serious thinkers and have a bit of fun with our wardrobes, too? 
  
  Many people seem to get confused: a put-together look is possible across all levels of formality and one is not "dressed up" in casual jeans, sneakers and a tee shirt just because they work particularly well together. I think people sometimes are commenting on what looks like (and sometimes is), effort on the part of the "wearer" to look good, make the most of their features and wardrobe, etc. Some people are judgmental about this focus, some competitive and some dismissive. Another situation where doing what works for you is what it is all about.  
  
  I appreciate what everyone has shared. 
  
  
• Suz replied 11 years ago
  Eliza, ROTFL -- "where fashion goes to die." I think a few of our other academics would (sadly) agree -- even though they are upping the academic style ante every day! 
  
  I also think you're right that sometimes any effort is perceived as frivolous or over-the-top. And people misuse the term "dressed up" when what they really mean is "pulled together." Or something of that sort. 
  
  Donna, an actual gear anorak is a great disguise!! (Especially if it actually looks pretty good, too.) ;-)
  
  Sammi, I really like your observation that you can easily be the most casual and the most dressed up person in your environment on the same day!! That has happened to me as well. Although usually I'm the dressiest, if I go for an appointment at the bank, for example, I might be the most casual. 
• krishnidoux replied 11 years ago
  This conversation has become such an interesting read!
• Sveta replied 11 years ago
  Looks like this post really struck the cord!
  Rachy, you are hilarious!
  I am European and moving to Canada gave me quite a cultural shock in the way people are dressed. I don't think it is casual as much as "I don't care" or "I cannot be bothered" attitude. So if you do care how you look and put just a bit of thought into your outfit you are already overdressed no matter how distressed your jeans are and how flat are your sandals. Come on, sweater and jeans is a 'dressed up' look? Because others did not bother to change out of oversized sweatshirts and yoga pants they were lounging at home?
  As for the fitting in...I work in a very casual environment  - software development. Most of my colleagues are guys who wear jeans and polo shirts  - and you know how I dress. I definitely don't blend into my environment, I stand out but I still fit in well with the guys, as much a part of the group as anybody else.
  
  
• Suz replied 11 years ago
  I think that some people manage this more easily than others, Sveta, and I'm not sure why. Part of it is probably comfort and confidence, but some might have to do with the specific environment. One environment might be ultra- casual yet also very tolerant. Whereas another might be much less forgiving of difference. 
• Jaime replied 11 years ago
  This thread has gone in so many interesting directions! Great discussion Suz!
  Rachylou you are hysterical and oh so accurate!
  In terms of RATE and casual, I am inherently RATE and casual and yet my real life friends have complimented my clothes with words that suggest I am fancy also. 
  Adapting to your surroundings plays a role in everyone's clothing decisions I guess. But everyone does not have the same goals in terms of being approachable and so on. I prefer to look unapproachable myself!
• Isabel replied 11 years ago
  I wrote my thought earlier. I just wanted to read what others wrote after and I have to say that I really, really enjoyed this thread !
  
   I do want to add two other things.
  
  1.  I think that some of this is also lack of knowledge and understanding of how to dress because of how much choice we have . I think that some people just don't know. Raise my hand...that is why I am here. 
  
  2. I think that the US really kicked off the casual trend as we moved the masses into the middle class. It was a sign of "arriving" . Just like in the old days when being really pasty white showed that you didn't work in the fields, then later having a tan showed you could afford time off and travel to the water and then having "lounge" and "gear" ( sneakers ) showed that you could afford to relax....I don't know if that makes sense. But I believe that is a part of it. 
• Joy replied 11 years ago
  This has been a fascinating read and brought up many memories of casual/dressy struggles.  One thing that seems to help me "fit in" with friends is that they know that a good part of my wardrobe is thrifted.  My most casual friend, when she hears someone complimenting me on my dress, tells them proudly that I probably bought it at a thrift store.  For some reason people seem to think that more dressed up means expensive when often the opposite is true.  As Suz said so well, " The skirts were also (ironically) cheaper than the jeans. But I took a lot of flack, not just for being dressed up, but for seeming hoity-toity. People thought I was rich because of the way I dressed, when in fact, I was the one working to put myself through school." 
• celia replied 11 years ago
  I enjoyed reading all the answers.
  One of Gaylene comments really resonated with me:
  'The conflict comes when we hit the wall of societal expectations and group dress codes. Do I hang on to my individuality even if it means upsetting or irritating others, or do I adjust my outfit to fit the prevailing ideas about how a person ought to be dressed? And, maybe, "casual dress" is where this conflict becomes most noticeable for many of us...'
  This year I joined the mom at the gate crowd and it has taken some adjustment. I know that my shyness is confused with being snob most of the time and the fact that I make an effort to dress what makes me feel and look good only strengthen that impression.
  I have my body issues and a body that doesn't do jeans and a shirt that well so it was a bit confusing for me to see moms with great bodies to wear clothes not even making an effort.It actually made me feel bad at one point because in my mind I was making an effort because I had to and they didn't need it.
  Thankfully Canadian winter is a great leveler and with winter boots and big coats there is really not much of a distinction which gave me some breathing space and time to think.
  Frankly I don't understand if the moms I know are dressing the way they do because they want to be casual, how would they dress if they were thinking about dressing up or if they bother at all with any of this.
  
  
• Parsley replied 11 years ago
  Fascinating thread, Suz!
  I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't always feel in sync with her environment. I feel like I dress very casually as a rule, but still manage to seem     somehow dressier than most women in my community. Luckily I have good friends who dress beautifully, so I feel at home with them. 
• carolbee replied 11 years ago
  A very interesting read.  Rachylous comment was very witty.  I have to say that generally Australia is a very casual country, a T shirt and thongs (the feet kind!) really are virtually the national dress.
  
  I've gone through many stages.  As a lecturer at TAFE (after high school, but not university level) I was always one of the dressiest, but since it was mostly male staff that never seemed to be an issue.
  
  Then we did the lap (a rite of passage for many Australians which involves travelling around the country with a caravan), for a year, which by its very nature is very casual. After returning we moved from Perth to a regional city and I continued to dress the same.
  
  Until a year or so ago.  I looked in the mirror one day to see this creature that I didn't recognise.  Sloppy, very casual clothes, no makeup, no hair dye.  So I vowed to improve and I have, except the hair - didn't go back to the full dye job, too much like hard work!  I am still a work in progress but I often get compliments about how I look or on a particular item of clothing.  But so far all these seem genuinely meant, not that they think I am "up myself" as we say here in Oz.
  
  In summary I think I am now one of Rachylous "fancy" people, and I plan to stay that way.
• deb replied 11 years ago
  This is such an interesting read. Many things spoken about here remind me of high school and how I felt then. I understand shevia when she states "I prefer to look unapproachable myself!" because I learned to use my clothing to keep people away.  I slowly developed a more approachable style but even now I get comments on how I am dressed up. I also find it interesting that this conversation shows how much we all have in common. Maybe that is why we were drawn to YLF in the first place. Too bad we do not live closer together so we can have a monthly meeting. Maybe Angie and Greg can add a teleconferencing option to the site and we can meet over cocktails virtually.
• Lyn D. replied 11 years ago
  YES YES! Another 'fancy-pants' to the end here!:)
• Ingunn replied 11 years ago
  A great thread with lots of insights! Sveta's comments caught my interest in particular: She mentions that she is more dressed up than her co-workers, which is fine with everybody. Maybe the expectations differ when we meet someone from another culture, even if it is only slightly different? I think the group norm hits us harder when we are supposed to "belong" both personally AND culturally, like Gaylene among others mentioned. My point is that it is easier to get acceptance for being on the dressier side if we originally are perceived as a bit different, even in a good way. I Norway, traditionally there has been a very strong social control in regards of casual dress codes with very few occasions to dress less casual, but I think it in general is easier to get away with challenging the norm and dress up more lately. I'm not sure why.
• anne replied 11 years ago
  Such an interesting thread!!  I wanted to chime in with my australian viewpoint.
  I think on the whole Australians are pretty casual, but casual can mean different things. A "nice" casual outfit, like coloured jeans and a slouchy tee with a scarf, would be the frequently seen on the mums of students at the dance school my daughters go to, whereas at the government school the girls attend, it wouldn't be unusual, but would be one among many looks - work uniforms, somewhat gothy looks, unkempt hair, trackies and jeans, a few high fashion looks, lots of gear. miniskirts, maxidresses, tee shirts/polo shirts with shorts - really a great range. Perhaps this is partly because I live in a regional town with a more diverse range than the suburbs many of you are in.
  
  And as for me - I think I am one of the fancy people too!
  
• anne replied 11 years ago
  Oh, and I forgot to say. What surprises me is people who I know can dress well, like shopping and have a better natural eye than I do, who invite you over, or you seen them at the supermarket, wearing a t shirt and tracksuit pants.
  
• Deborah replied 11 years ago
  Can I be one of the fancy people?!
  
  Where I currently live I would say there is a balanced cross section of dressy and casual.  I have made peace with the fact that 'dressy' is my preference, regardless of wether I am going to the office, the supermarket, a wedding, etc etc.  
  
  I have experienced many years of people commenting "oh are you on you way somewhere" and I just take it in my stride. I do think about the issue of 'fitting in" but not a lot.  Im not doing to wear a dress to watch Master 10 play football, but I will wear jeans, animal print rain boots, top and a nice jacket :)
  
  I feel I really am at the point of just doing what works for me and not worrying too much. 
• Agnes replied 11 years ago
  A while ago one of the other mums at the school gate said to me, 'you look nice. Kind of glamorous' I was wearing flat sandals, dark jeans shorts and a nice shirt. It was very casual but it was pulled together. i think you are all right in identifying that difference. I could have been wearing thongs and a tshirt, but 2 seconds of effort to match my shirt and sandals and  I got a lovley compliment.
  
  I don't mind if other poeple are very dressed up or casual, but I do mind inapppropriate items. High heels when you are camping or gear anoraks at a night club.
• Louise replied 11 years ago
  I've been following this thread with interest from the beginning and finally have my thoughts ordered enough to comment.
  
  For me and my life casual needs further divisions and discriptors (is that a word?) I have dressy casual and super casual. Sveta's recent holidays WIWs (what I wore) and Angie's MOTG (mom on the go) are my dressy casual which I'd wear visiting friends, shopping and work teacher training days. Then I have super casual which I'd wear if I was probably staying home but might pop to the supermarket, days out sightseeing and on holiday. It's a combination of my loungewear and gear with perhaps some jeans thrown in. Today we're off to a National Trust property and I'll probably wear cargo trousers or jeans with a T, possibly a fleece and my hiking soft shell jacket and a puffy gilet on top with a cross body backpack bag. For comfort's sake I'll most likely wear either my hiking boots or technical walking shoes. I know my dressy casual would work for this outing but I'd feel a bit too dressy.
  
  On a side note can I just say Angie and Greg I love the new feature to add page links from a word. I know there was a formula to do it before but I couldn't get the hang of it x
  
  ETA I spoke to soon my links don't go anywhere! I'll go back and see if I can get them to work!
  
  ETA finally got the links to work, I'd got 2 lots of https somehow
• Astrid replied 11 years ago
  I loved this thread and all your great insights. I think it's important to differentiate between dressy and pulled together, as was said before. Most people around me don't get that difference. I often get comments that I would be dressed up, but I would say my style is very casual all around. I think it's because my pieces work together and I pay attention to cut, fit and proportions. When I first found YLF I felt like I had to wear dressier clothes to avoid feeling frumpy in my casual clothes, but that wasn't the right way to go about it for me. I just didn't feel like myself in some things. I'm not polished or very dressy and I don't want to be. Now I know that buying and wearing great casual clothes makes me feel fab - as fab as I wanted to feel when I tried to wear these dressier things. Of course casual in my case doesn't mean sweatpants and fleece. So I might look dressed up in comparison to some people after all.